“I never draw lines in the sand. I think that’s not helpful … We don’t demonise anything. Yes, we all will eat some of those ultra-processed foods sometimes, and that’s okay,” Katsumoto said. “I think the bottom line is, if we can really try to keep our gut as happy as possible by really loading up with a lot of diverse plants, right? And, occasionally, some animal [products] are OK. But I just want to say, really, the plants are where the money is. And the plants are what are anti-inflammatory … and there’s been so much data suggesting that plants are super important for health and longevity.”